AP English Language Period 5

Thursday, January 31, 2008

Topics for Dorian Discussion of chapters 8-13

Leaders, post topics for Friday's discussion here.

posted by mferrill at 10:28 AM

9 Comments:

  • Some broad thoughts and questions to consider for Friday’s fishbowl discussion from the beginning of the reading:

    As the novel progresses to this point, how should the reader now view Lord Henry? Does he appear satanic?

    Why is Dorian Gray so fearful when he sees the portrait has significantly changed? Has the picture literally changed or is it a representation of Dorian’s conscience?

    Who truly has the biggest influence on Dorian Gray’s character? Is it Lord Henry as Basil suggests?

    What foils exist thus far in the novel? Is it Basil to Lord Henry?

    What is the meaning of the picture changing?

    What does the shade across the portrait represent?

    By Blogger Megan, at January 31, 2008 3:42 PM  

  • Hey guys sorry about the delay in posting... here are a few more topics to add to Megan's list!

    Is there a significance to the book the Lord Henry gave Dorian?

    Dorian's failing reputation? Does he care? Is it significant?

    (I know Mrs. Ferrill proposed this question...)
    Is the painting really changing?

    Does a piece of Dorian die along with Sibyl? Which part? Is it the trigger to his downfall?

    Are Lord Henry's opinions all wrong? Does he have any positive ideals? Maturity level?

    Color symbolism?

    Does Dorian now have the physical version of Lord Henry's friendship? (Lord Henry kills with words, Dorian seems to kill literally?)

    Dorian and the Devil?

    and finally,

    Discuss the death of Basil!

    By Blogger jessica m, at January 31, 2008 5:57 PM  

  • I still hold firm in the belief that Henry is not in fact "satanic," as some have suggested, but is simply lost and afraid and confused like anyone and conceals his own worry and trepidation beneath a facade of wit and arrogance.

    Still, one can see in Henry that this seeming indifference, like an addiction, gradually begins to take hold of him as it does with Dorian. For example, when Henry learns of Basil's death, he appears not to have been in any way affected by it.

    I've just had a thought. In my mind, whether the picture is actually changing or whether it simply appears to be changing is irrelevant. The symbolism of Dorian's gradually tarnishing soul is undeniable.

    As to Basil's influence on Dorian, I think he is the only true friend that Dorian ever really had. The most valuable thing Dorian was ever told, far more valuable than any of Henry's witticisms was Basil's plaintive appeal to Dorian right before his death, "It is never too late to change"

    By Blogger Spencer Z, at February 03, 2008 8:49 PM  

  • I am still convinced that Lord Henry is the driving (evil) influence in Dorian's life. At the beginning of chapter 8, on pg. 93, when Dorian resolves to make amends with Sybil Vane and continue his engagement to her, he tells Lord Henry, "I know what conscience is...It is not what you told me it was. It is the divinest thing in us. Don't sneer at it, Harry, anymore-at least not before me. I want to be good. I can't bear the idea of my soul being hideous." He makes up his mind to sever his ties with Lord Henry if necessary, in order to preserve the good in him, and his own sense of morality. Upon finding that Sybil Vane has killed herself, Dorian goes into a fit of passion, which he should rightfully have done. However, through LORD HENRY's rationalizations, and his assurances that Sybil committing suicide was for the better, he convinces Dorian that he need feel no regret or guilt for her, and that he should attend the opera less than 24 hours after the girl kills herself. Thus, Dorian allows himself to again be pulled under the influences of his dangerous friend. And subconsciously, he knows it. Later on, in chapter 10, on pg. 114, Dorian thinks to himself, "Yes, Basil could have saved him. But it was too late now." He realizes that Basil's company was much wiser to have, and not at all harmful to his soul and conscience like that of Lord Henry's. I do not deny that Dorian is responsible for his own behavior, but I believe that Lord Henry's has been too powerful a presence in Dorian's decisions and his outlook on life, causing him to act against his own nature, and to shock Basil to the point where he no longer recognizes his innocent young friend. And, Basil soon finds he is too late to even save himself from the thing Dorian has become...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at February 03, 2008 9:34 PM  

  • Im not sure that Lord Henry still appears Satanic, but because he is drawing on Dorian's soul it almost seems as though he is trying to play God and create his own person, but not in a Godly way. I don't think the reader should be surprised by Henry anymore but kind of expect what he is doing. I think he is doing it because he thinks he can make a copy of himself in Dorian, making him feel more powerful because I think he likes having that power.

    I think Dorian is fearful when he sees the portrait because he realizes that it has caused him to change so much, but he does not want to reverse the corruption of his soul and himself. I think he knows that it is too late to reverse the change the portrait has caused. I think the portrait really has changed in everyone's mind that had seen it before Dorian changed because it is an imprint of his soul and they have seen his soul become corrupt, I wonder what others who had not seen it before would think of it.

    I think Henry has the most noticable influence on Dorian because he shows the change Henry has brought. I think Basil has had the positive influence to try and preserve Dorian's innocence.

    I think the shade across the portrait represents Dorian's outer skin and fear of himself. He does not want to look at the portrait because he fears what he has become and how much more it will have changed the next time he looks at it. It is childish to hide from one's fears and Dorian's inability to avoid influence also represents his childish nature.

    By Blogger ChristineT, at February 04, 2008 7:27 PM  

  • I was intrigued by the way Lord Henry convinces Dorian that Sibyl's death is not his fault. Like any human being, Dorian feels a sense of remorse when Lord Henry first informs Dorian of Sibyl's death. Lord Henry, however, immediately begins to convince Dorian that he had to influence whatsoever on Sibyl's death. Lord Henry instructs Dorian to "...absorb the colour of life, but...never remember its details" (97). Does Lord Henry really believe that Dorian had nothing to do with Sibyl's death or is he just trying to mold Dorian into a person without a conscience?

    By the time Basil comes to see Dorian about Sibyl's death, Dorian is already convinced that he had nothing to do with Sibyl's death and should, in no way, feel like it was his fault. He says to Basil: "If one doesn't talk about a thing, it has never happened" (103). I'm not sure if Dorian really believes that, or if it is just another one of Lord Henry's opinions that he has adopted as his own. Either way, it shows how easy it is for Dorian to brush off his own emotions in order for Lord Henry's to take over.

    By Blogger Kaity M., at February 04, 2008 8:17 PM  

  • I never viewed Henry as satanic, and I agree with Christine in that he is almost God-like. He may have toyed with Dorian a little, but in the process I think Dorian gained the opportunity to mature significantly. Henry's intent was never to "mar" Dorian. Besides, from a Romantic point of view Dorian's negative experiences were still experiences, and therefore worthy and valuable. If anything Dorian should thank Henry.

    Dorian/Henry's reaction to Sibyl's death was very Romantic/Aesthetic. Dorian's instinctual response was remorse, but Henry was quick to smother that by elevating her suicide to some sort of beautiful passionate tragedy. Kaity mentioned that Henry convinced Dorian he wasn't the cause, but I think he did more than that. Not only was it not Dorian's FAULT, but she did it FOR him and out of pure love FOR him. This whole conflict seemed to be an example of how life can imitate art. Dorian and Henry have detatched themselves from their own lives to the point where they are no longer active participants but spectators only there to "absorb the color." Are they ideal Aesthetics? Or just justifying their emotional laziness and/or handicap?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at February 04, 2008 9:45 PM  

  • A few questions that I have had throughout the novel and haven’t had the chance to share in class: Do beauty and corruption always coincide? Is the curse of the portrait reversible by anything other than death? Is it significant that Wilde titles the novel, The Picture of Dorian Gray, while it is always referred to as a portrait in the novel?

    Some of my thoughts to sum up Dorian Gray: From the beginning of the novel when Dorian first trades his soul for beauty I believe it is very clear that the only path the novel can take is the road to Dorian’s death. Man must age; yet Dorian seems that he will remain immortal. In almost every story where a character becomes immortal the ending results are tragic and the character ends up even more unhappy than he was in the begining. (For example look at many vampire stories, those who search for the fountain of youth or even characters like Peter Pan who refuse to grow up). The Portrait of Dorian Gray takes the same path. In the end, the inspiring and thought provoking novel almost seems tragic and hopeless, leaving the readers with a sense that even art is corrupt. We see beauty tainted and admirable characters killed; and now I ask what was the point? Are we supposed to just accept it as a work of art or are we supposed to tear it to pieces with analysis, as we tend to do with many novels. If you argue that Wilde breaks the promise he makes in the preface, does this mean that he believes that we cannot live in an aesthetic world? Today, do you believe we can?

    By Blogger Emilee P, at February 06, 2008 6:59 PM  

  • Regarding Lord Henry, I think some of his characteristics can be viewed as satanic, but none of his motives are. Christine said that readers should know what to expect from him at this point, and I completely agree. Henry's personality is intriguing and unconventional, so he seems exciting in the beginning, yet he never changes.

    Dorian is afraid to see the portrait changed because he ultimately cannot grasp his own identity. I believe that he wants to remain the same person, and relies on a portrait of himself to reinforce that. However, when Dorian does change, the canvas and paint can do nothing to help him. I do not think the picture actually changed, but again, that it represents him changing.

    Spencer suggested that Basil is the only true friend that Dorian has ever had; however, I think that their relationship never had real depth. Perhaps Basil wanted to be a real friend to Dorian, but I don't think that Dorian had any interest in accepting and/or reciprocating it. The only good Basil does for Dorian is looking out for Dorian's best interests. Not only does he warn against Lord Henry, but he is most personable with Dorian. Conversely, he paints the portrait of Dorian which ultimately destroys both Basil and Dorian, literally.

    By Blogger Abby M., at February 10, 2008 5:47 PM  

Post a Comment

<< Home